To Wrench, Or Not To Wrench

"Justin Hughes" (justinhughes54)
03/05/2015 at 23:41 • Filed to: car wrenching

That is the question. Whether 'tis nobler for the Jalop to suffer the dealers and technicians that cost an outrageous fortune, or to take up tools against a sea of troubles, and by himself end them.

I could go on, but I'll spare you.

Tavarish recently asked !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , and have shops and warranties handle it instead. After all, who wouldn't want to spend a day under a car trying everything possible (and impossible) to remove that one final bolt that's molecularly bonded to to the nut and refuses to budge, complete with loose rust flaking into your eyes the whole time? Why, yes, this is the voice of experience talking. I've done it both ways, in fact, and I understand both perspectives quite well. So here's how I see it.

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To Wrench

Though I've always been interested in cars, I haven't always been an enthusiast. My first car, a hand-me-down 1982 Pontiac 6000LE, reflected that. I didn't know the first thing about working on it, but I knew that typical '80s GM [un]reliability was costing me a lot of money that I, as a poor college student, didn't have. When my front brakes were past squeaking and onto grinding, and I couldn't afford to get them fixed, my townie friend Cecil, who I met and talked with regularly on the ham radio, offered to do the job with me for the cost of parts. My dad objected, despite having been a bit of a wrench himself on our 1974 Super Beetle (think Torchinsky's without the stripe). But I was desperate and there was no way I could afford a shop, so I took him up on it anyway. We picked up pads and rotors at the local parts store, and then he taught me how to replace them. Soon enough, I had good brakes again, and for a fraction of what a shop would have charged.

Since then, being willing to wrench on my own cars let me own and enjoy some pretty interesting stuff for not a lot of money. I started tackling more and more work on my own cars - mainly to save money. But soon I found myself enjoying the process and learning more about how they work. I picked up my first project car, !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , to autocross with Boston BMW CCA, and to have fun tinkering with. The more I tinkered, the better I got at it, and the more effective my modifications were. When my first Miata ran out of oil at an autocross, I kept the original engine after having it replaced, and took it apart to literally see what made it tick. It was a fun project, and lucrative, too. Because 99% of the motor was still good, I sold off half the parts, and made back half the cost of the replacement motor.

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Even after the dot com bust in the early 2000s, I've still been fortunate enough to own and play with a variety of interesting cars by buying cheap older cars and working on them myself. I had a free Civic wagon (front wheel drive), three different Miatas, an AW11 MR2, a nicely modified Saturn SL2, a RT4WD Civic wagon, a B13 Sentra SE-R, and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . Despite my low income during those lean years, I kept my costs down and had a blast, thoroughly enjoying both driving and wrenching on these cars. And doing the majority of the wrenching on them myself was how I made it work.

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Not To Wrench

But at this point in my life, times have changed. Due to a long, complicated set of circumstances that I won't bore you with, I'm living in a rented condo these days. I only have room for one car, so I can't afford to have my car out of commission for days at a time and miss work. I also don't have any shelter, such as a garage or carport, to work on my car – especially during the six month long New England winter. I also can't keep my tools near my car, making it a pain to get any work done on it. Even swapping from summer to winter wheels and tires is an ordeal, since I have to carry everything a good distance out and back. So the location isn't ideal.

So last year, I bought !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . Being a new car, nothing should go wrong with it for a very long time, and even if it does I have a warranty to back it up. Ironically, that warranty is the very reason I won't do so much as my own oil changes. Why? Because I want the documentation of a professional establishment proving that I have done all of the required maintenance in case of any warranty issues. Sure, I could show them a receipt for a filter and a few quarts of oil, but that doesn't prove that they actually went into the car at the appropriate time. I'm also not making any radical modifications to the car – nothing that should void the warranty, at least. I've still made some minor tweaks, like adding a backup camera, mud flaps, a ham radio, !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , and dipping the stock wheels gold to complete the Subaru rally look. But that's about it.

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Which Is Better?

In my opinion, neither. They're just different means to the same end. I would never consider someone to not be a true gearhead because they don't wrench on their own car. Not everybody is cut out for it, and that's OK. Or, like me, different phases of life require different approaches. I love my BRZ, but I do miss having a cheap beater I didn't mind !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! at a winter rallycross.

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In a perfect world, I'd have it both ways. I'd keep my BRZ, and keep doing what I'm doing with it, which is mainly daily driving. But I'd have another older, cheaper car as well that I could tinker and play with as I please. These days, off-pavement pursuits such as rallycross and eventually stage rally interest me, so something I could slide through the cones and eventually down the stages that I could tinker with myself would be great. I'd have the best of both worlds - a car I didn't have to worry about, and a car I could play with.

Dedicated to Cecil Oxford, N5PNM (SK), for getting me started with all this tinkering gearhead madness in the first place. I think of him every time I do a front brake job.

DISCUSSION (100)

BaconSandwich is tasty. > Justin Hughes
03/06/2015 at 00:11

Very well said. I'm in a similar boat - no time, and I can't afford to be car-less, should a repair job go wrong. I would eventually like to get a project car, but right now don't have the space or time.

Dsscats > Justin Hughes
03/06/2015 at 00:52

Ain't got space, ain't got time, ain't got tools, ain't got enough experience to risk messing up.

pip bip - choose Corrour > Justin Hughes
03/06/2015 at 07:44

why not? what's the worst that can happen.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Justin Hughes
03/06/2015 at 07:53

Yeah, I agree. Both are great, and ideally, every jalop would have a relatively reliable daily and a fun weekend car. FYI, I might be able to swing Black River Stages this year. Not 100% sure yet, but probably 60ish.

Justin Hughes > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie
03/06/2015 at 07:56

I have a scheduling conflict for BRS that I made 3 years ago, so unfortunately I'm out this time around. I won't let that happen again though!

DancesWithRotors - Driving Insightfully > Justin Hughes
03/06/2015 at 08:54

Right now, I have the '13 Mazda as the nice car I don't mess with, and three old Volvos to play with. It works.

thebigbossyboss > Justin Hughes
03/06/2015 at 09:05

I wrench on my car when it's a non catastrophic failure I can reasonably be expected to fix myself and it's nice out. I live in eastern Canada, the avg temperature for the month of Feb was 1F. To give a comparison of how cold that it, the avg LOW temperature of Syracuse NY in feb is 17F. In the winter I just can't be bothered.

In the summer I enjoy the challenge. I have a DD but can take the bus if I have to.

Slant6 > Justin Hughes
03/06/2015 at 09:12

how did you get into ham radio? I have a cheap Chinese transceiver that I've been listening with for years but never figured out where to get my license.

Justin Hughes > thebigbossyboss
03/06/2015 at 09:23

It's colder where you are, but I feel the same. Just can't be bothered in the winter. This is the time of year I try to stretch those little issues out or delay those projects just a little bit longer until it warms up and the snowbanks give my driveway back.

Justin Hughes > Slant6
03/06/2015 at 09:28

Go to the ARRL web site , read up a bit, and get yourself a book for the Technician class license. That's the entry level license and all you need to transmit legally with that cheap radio, if it's one of the ones I'm thinking. Listening is always allowed, license or not, so you can learn how things like repeater operation actually work just by tuning your local frequencies.

jariten1781 > Justin Hughes
03/06/2015 at 09:32

My wife and I have a system:

One car in warranty: On this I'll do routine maintenance (oil changes/brakes/battery) but no repairs. Also, mods are limited to 'return to stock with hand tools and ramps in < half an hour'.

2nd out of warranty: This will usually (but not always) be the warranty car transitioning in. I will do all work and large replacements up to transmission swaps. Only thing I won't do is pull engines because my garage is not conducive to an engine hoist. Mods are limited to daily drivable but have included things like large turbo swaps and SC installs.

3rd Toy: Not required to be reliable so anything goes. We've had 70s PLCs to track rats in this slot.

This keeps us with two reliable (and one dead reliable) with a backup. I used to also have a motorcycle in slot 4, but screw riding in DC traffic. The only thing that keeps me from having a 4th slot is space.

I had basically the same experience as you: non-mechanical family, initial wrenching out of $$$s necessity, lots of fun 'junk', rolled into needing reliability so started having a car with warranty, to today. I still have fond (terrible?) memories of swapping the clutch on a 91 Prelude in a local park's parking lot in an all nighter because I had no wrenching spot otherwise.

twochevrons > Justin Hughes
03/06/2015 at 09:47

For the most part, I really enjoy working on my own cars, and there isn't much that I would be afraid to tackle. This gives me the freedom to own old and unusual cars that would be hideously uneconomical to keep if I had to pay somebody to work on them. Case in point, according to my 850R's service documents, the previous owner spent at least twice what I paid for it EVERY YEAR on taking it to a mechanic for every little fault.

That said, time and space constraints do limit me somewhat. My wife needs a car for work and as a result, she bought a newish VW Golf with a dealer warranty and low miles. Contrary to what everybody says about VWs, it's been perfectly reliable so far, but it's nice to have the peace of mind that if it does break down, we can just take it to the dealer and have them sort it out.

Living in Minnesota, and lacking a heated garage, there are plenty of reasons for me to send my own car to a mechanic, too. I did replace the Volvo's oil pan myself in 20-degree weather this winter, but that was mainly because I looked at what the local indie shop would charge and thought "screw that." In hindsight, after spending a whole weekend grovelling under a filthy car in sub-freezing weather, I think I'd just pay the money next time, though! Anything that can wait, though, I put off until the weather warms up, and honestly, I tend to go a little stir-crazy. All these things that I really want to fix, but I can't touch for another few months. Ugh.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Justin Hughes
03/06/2015 at 09:51

Off-topic, but this is fantastic:

Kinja'd!!!

Justin Hughes > jariten1781
03/06/2015 at 10:12

Sounds very familiar. I plan to end up in a similar space as you eventually.

Speaking of emergency parking lot repairs, my third Miata's diff decided to give out on Christmas Day one year. I think it was a Saturday. I had Sunday off, had to be back to work on the 27th, and the Miata was my only car. Fortunately, through a strange series of events, I had Miata #2's original diff in storage after an LSD upgrade - mainly because I tried to give it away and failed. So from sunup to sundown - not a very long time near the winter solstice - a friend and I thrashed out that diff swap in the parking lot, and had the car fixed just as the sun set.

That was a time when no shop could've helped, due to the time constraints involved, and it was very handy to have the skills and tools to pull it off myself.

whatisthatsound > Justin Hughes
03/06/2015 at 13:03

Kinja'd!!!

This is what is currently going on in my garage. I believe something is stuck in the sills and smoking. Could be leaves. I'll know when I'm finished.

xtrappedunderricex > Justin Hughes
03/06/2015 at 13:05

i will wrench if it's an issue that i can take care of on my own (ie. i have the proper tools, i can get the parts cheaper, and it won't take an entire weekend or more to address). it's our only car, so it can't be up on stands too long as my wife needs it to shuttle the kids around. i can only wrench at my father-in-law's driveway. luckily, i haven't had major issues. i just do the normal stuff like changing brakes, fluids, sensors, etc...

if it's anything more serious or time consuming, i will default to a garage or stealership if necessary.

spngr311 > jariten1781
03/06/2015 at 13:05

I am thinking of moving to this plan. Seems to work best. Fortunately, I am very mechanically inclined (transmission swaps aren't a big deal - made my E36 M3 sedan a manual), but I'd rather spend the time I do wrenching on something fun to work on and drive. Wrenching on the wife's X5 just isn't that entertaining since all she wants is it to get from point a to b in a reasonably comfortable manner.

Peptide > Justin Hughes
03/06/2015 at 13:05

Totally off topic, but saw the dedication to your Elmer and wondered if you have a call yourself. Please don't actually post it...

tsy1987 > Justin Hughes
03/06/2015 at 13:06

My 2010 FJ Cruiser is my reliable mode of transportation. The only mods on it are suspension and some additional lighting. I don't really plan on doing anything with the engine (The TRD supercharger only works on the 2009 and below otherwise I would consider that) to keep it reliable.

I bought a used Miata (of course) as my daily commuter car because of the terrible gas mileage of the SUV but also as a project/fun car. It doesn't matter if the Miata is out of commision for some time, it just costs me more gas money to drive the FJ, which I enjoy driving anyway so it all works out. Having two cars definitely makes tackling more difficult jobs plausible and I enjoy the challenge.

5Doors > Justin Hughes
03/06/2015 at 13:07

There are many good reasons to not do the work yourself. But to all the people saying "no experience, no tools", where do you think the rest of us got these from? Buy a ratchet set (often posted on Jalopnik for like $75) and just give it a shot. Start with small jobs, and you won't have to worry about being stranded. You can learn how to do anything on youtube. Anything.

Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero > Justin Hughes
03/06/2015 at 13:09

it really is excellent to see a write up that shows both sides of the coin. Well done.

IGetPwnedOften > Justin Hughes
03/06/2015 at 13:10

I was a mechanic for about ten years in my youth. I really don't like working on my own car. I used to when I was younger, but not any more. Fortunately I am in a position financially to pay others to do the jobs I can't be arsed to do myself.

I might do stuff like change the brake pads and discs and obviously I'll do little bits like bulbs and so forth, but even for regular servicing it goes back to the dealer. Having said that, I tend to buy almost new cars that are still under warranty and in most cases, dealer servicing is a condition of the warranty.

Actually, as an aside, speaking of brake pads - at our garage we always changed the discs when we fitted a new set of brake pads. We found it made pads last much longer. Anyone else do this?

JWu > Justin Hughes
03/06/2015 at 13:10

Agreed~ Sometimes life situations change... used to have the luxury of the family home's large yard to do wrenching, but after being subjected to attempted sabotage by a sibling right after getting married, I much rightly chose my wife than access to a home garage. Much happier now, but being in a rented condo with strict rules doesn't lend well to hacking around in a dark and small space... no space for tools, no space for jack, weird looks from neighbors... traded in my squeaky mini cooper with its German electrics, Mexican engine, British build quality, for a new Accord.

jjhats > Justin Hughes
03/06/2015 at 13:13

is no one going to bring up that todays cars are vastly more complicated and computer based than one from 1990? hell even the dealerships don't even know how they work half the time. There is less and less gearheads can feasibly do/get to in a modern car. My dads 65 corvette is a different beast, tons of space to work really obvious components and honestly the only option is to work yourself or find a specialty shop which charge out the wazoo. in fact my dad really shys away from taking it there because its not restored and needs a bunch of stuff which he knows. When he took it in because it needed a muffler and a clutch both out of my dads skill he got it back in piss poor running condition though it drove completely fine before that. 2 months of aggravation and flushing the tank many times fixing the timing the carb and the fuel/fuel filter it runs but you bet your money he wont go back there after dropping 10k to get his car back in shit condition. The moral of the story is trust yourself and be wary of shops but if you drive new take advantage of the warranty because you paid for it. And I am genuinely afraid that todays computer cars wont be fixable by people in 50 years as the software will be obsolete

OtisHoyt > Justin Hughes
03/06/2015 at 13:13

My criteria is this:

Does it involve more than a quart of fluids? If no then wrench on. If yes, to the shop it goes. I live in an apartment complex so working on my own car takes me to friends that have garages who also enjoy working on cars. But once lots of oil or coolant get factored in it just becomes a messy hassle.

472CID > Justin Hughes
03/06/2015 at 13:13

I too know the struggle of renting and being garageless. I just keep my modest set of tools in the vehicle. They're right there when ever you need to wrench.

Justin Hughes > Peptide
03/06/2015 at 13:13

Yes, I've been licensed since 1989. You may notice certain license plates on my cars that would interest you...

Ad_absurdum_per_aspera > Justin Hughes
03/06/2015 at 13:15

I used to be a lot more dedicated to doing my own work whenever possible — to some extent for cost savings, but really a combination of a point of pride and a lifelong desire to get my hands into any technology and find out what it does and how it does it.

With age came more income, more demands on my time (implying both less time to swing a wrench and more need for reliable transportation), and more realization that somebody who does a particular task more times in a week than I would in a year can get it done quicker and probably better (and most likely is relatively young and spry, and almost certainly equipped with a spacious indoor work area with a lift and so forth).

I confess to being more likely to farm out dirty and relatively uninteresting jobs, and to being more interested in doing any given chore on a hobby car than my daily drivers. The one dirty and intellectually uninvolving thing that I insist on doing myself is fluid change; it gives me an opportunity to have a long, close look around, to see what else needs attention, possibly from a mechanic.

It helps that a friend of the family who hits the garage trifecta — talented, honest, and reasonably priced — has his shop six blocks down the street.

I guess the bottom line is that I do the things I consider to be fun and/or interesting, have a good ad hoc program of maintenance obsercvation, and keep my hand in enough to solve some problems and to maybe avoid getting rooked after a roadside breakdown.

Justin Hughes > tsy1987
03/06/2015 at 13:16

That is exactly what I did for years - a reliable, only mildly modified daily driver, and a Miata to play with and take to the autocross or track. That strategy really paid off when it ran out of oil - I still got to work on Monday.

thebigbossyboss > Justin Hughes
03/06/2015 at 13:17

Haha yes, my headlight has been off one of it's brackets for months now lol.

timgray > Justin Hughes
03/06/2015 at 13:17

From my 40+ years of experience. If you want it done right, do it yourself. If you are ok with it possibly being done half assed, let the dealer do it, I have had more damage done to a car by the idiots that are "certified mechanics" than anything else. yes I have completely rebuilt and engine by hand, I have completely restored 3 cars and 4 motorcycles.

If you have to pay someone to work on it, find someone who is genuinely an expert, I found a indie BMW mechanic that is far more skilled than any 30 BMW dealership service employees put together. I know he will do it right as he personally does final check on all cars after his guys work on it. He will even walk you out under the car and show you what was done so you can see that brand new shiny starter.

My motorcycles? nobody touched them other than me, period.

Justin Hughes > 5Doors
03/06/2015 at 13:18

True! When researching the last motorcycle I got (Honda PC800), I found a series of videos demonstrating all the normal maintenance procedures on the bike. Knowing that it would be easy to maintain and how to do it, before ever seeing one in real life, was a big help.

Justin Hughes > Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero
03/06/2015 at 13:19

Thank you!

Justin Hughes > IGetPwnedOften
03/06/2015 at 13:21

I have no idea about lasting longer, but I also tend to change pads and rotors at the same time.

Peptide > Justin Hughes
03/06/2015 at 13:21

QSL.

WaddleLoo > Justin Hughes
03/06/2015 at 13:21

I have mostly always wrenched my own stuff. Corvette, Land Rover, Land Cruiser. The thing that scares the crap out of me is wrenching on my own bike. Sure screwing up on a car can cost you money, but motorcycle just ups the ante so much.

Justin Hughes > jjhats
03/06/2015 at 13:23

That's a good point. My BRZ is "simple" by today's standards, but even it has features like direct injection that were rare or unheard of 25 years ago.

Justin Hughes > 472CID
03/06/2015 at 13:26

That's exactly what I did in my ex-cop Crown Vic, because 99% of the time I didn't need that fraction of trunk space where my plastic bin lived. That same bin won't fit in my BRZ in any way not involving the removal of seats.

JohnnyWasASchoolBoy > Justin Hughes
03/06/2015 at 13:27

I wrench when I know that I'm not going to catastrophically screw anything up and, it's not a warranty issue.

Filters & fluids - wrench
Brakes, replace pads - wrench
Water pump/thermostat - wrench
Fuel and other lines - wrench
Rear suspension - wrench

Wiring - never wrench
Anything to do with valve train - never wrench
Timing belt/chain - never wrench
Front suspension - never wrench
Transmission & driveline - never wrench
Anything with gears or rear-end - never wrench

The "depends on the help available" section:
Wheel bearings
Fuel pump
Brake rotors

Justin Hughes > WaddleLoo
03/06/2015 at 13:28

I agree completely! Plus carburetors are little boxes of black magic in my world...

jariten1781 > IGetPwnedOften
03/06/2015 at 13:28

If you're in the US you may want to re-read your warranty documentation. It is illegal to condition a warranty on dealer service unless the service is free.

That said, it can make claims take longer (more talking up the chain to get approved) so depending it may be worth it to you.

The actual verbiage in federal law (if you're interested):

No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer's using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name;

If you're not in the US and you don't have the same protection...that's a shame. Do something about that :P

jks > timgray
03/06/2015 at 13:31

Totally agree. A professional mechanic is motivated to get the job done as quickly as possible. That leads to mistakes, short cuts, and claims to work done that wasn't actually performed. He has the advantage of experience that I may not have, but my motivation is to do the highest quality, most careful work possible on my expensive investment. After some time, then I have experience too.

Arrivederci > Justin Hughes
03/06/2015 at 13:34

Ironically, that warranty is the very reason I won't do so much as my own oil changes. Why? Because I want the documentation of a professional establishment proving that I have done all of the required maintenance in case of any warranty issues.

This. I also have a BRZ and get a little flack from others in our 86 group about letting the dealer perform the routine maintenance on the car. Yes, I can get the Fumoto valve and our filter is right on top. The simplicity of the job isn't the point - I just want documentation that it has been done both for my warranty and also for resale. I trust myself to do it, but doubt Subaru does or the next owner will. They'd both rather see the dealer do it.

I'm a bit different than you with regards to modification, though - I'm happily modifying it already, but won't do anything that will (clearly) void the warranty like FI. OFT is great because you can flash a tune and then flash it back to stock if you need warranty work done. Not as easy to hide a turbo :).

sgoldste02 > Slant6
03/06/2015 at 13:37

http://bit.ly/1H7EWfh

iNvDrZiM > Justin Hughes
03/06/2015 at 13:39

I can wrench on our own cars, but have very little time to do so. Additionally, my wife once told me she prefers to take it to the shop because if something is done wrong she can freely be upset with them without feeling as bad about it.

shotinthearm > Justin Hughes
03/06/2015 at 13:40

I worked on my own cars when I was young, broke, and had time. Only had one car, and the pressure to get it running to get it to work the next day while it was in pieces at 10:00 at night was great incentive to dive in and fix it and not have it become an ongoing project car that didn't run. Started with oil changes and moved up to brakes, drivetrain, etc. And I was also much more reckless (likely due to the value of the car); "I've never done this before. Lets take it apart and see what happens!" I don't do any work now mostly because I live in a condo but also time is more important than money, but the experience back then was priceless because now a) I can have a pretty good idea what is broken on my car, why, and what it will take to fix it, and b) I know enough to know what I don't know and when to listen to the mechanic. That being said, I'd probably still find a way to do my own work if I hadn't found a great mechanic I trust.

Masty > Justin Hughes
03/06/2015 at 13:40

Kinja'd!!!

Where's a pic with the gold wheels?

Rusty_Jaguar > Justin Hughes
03/06/2015 at 13:40

I was a poor student in the late 70s and early 80s, driving malaise era cars. I wrenched or I walked!

IGetPwnedOften > jariten1781
03/06/2015 at 13:42

I'm in the UK. It really depends on the manufacturer - for example, Mercedes give a 30 year anti-corrosion warranty, but the car has to have a full dealer service history. They also give free roadside assistance throughout Europe, but the car must be dealer serviced and so on and so forth.

I usually have the car serviced by the dealer until the warranty expires, then I have a local garage that I use. I also use them for repairs, because dealers charge a fortune for stuff like that.

I remember some years ago having a C class diesel and the injector pump went. Mercedes quoted me £3000 to supply and fit a new pump with a lead time of three weeks. I took it to a friend of mine who ran a garage that specialised in fuel injection systems and he told me that only one garage in the country was authorised by CAV (the pump manufacturer) to work on that pump type, so even if I had authorised Mercedes to do the work, they would have had to take the car to this garage. I took it to them directly. They sold me a recon pump for £450 and fitted it free. They also had the car back to me the following day.

Masty > Justin Hughes
03/06/2015 at 13:42

2006 Honda Civic for DD and 1984 Honda CB700SC to tinker.

TooManyCarsMike > Justin Hughes
03/06/2015 at 13:42

Working on/upgrading a car on a weekend in a frantic rush so that its running by Monday so you can get to work is no fun. Neither is working in the snow, having to carry your tools from your apartment to your parking space, or not having a back up car to get parts when you find you don't have something you need. As Ive gotten older, I almost always make sure I have a reliable DD to go along with any project cars I pick up so I can take my time and still make it to work Monday regardless of the state of the project car.

Mark Jacob > whatisthatsound
03/06/2015 at 13:43

The jealousy is strong within me.

whatisthatsound > Mark Jacob
03/06/2015 at 13:44

Don't be jealous yet, the job just started.

HammerheadFistpunch > Justin Hughes
03/06/2015 at 13:45

Man I hear this. I like to do my own work because:

1. I trust myself to do it right more than I trust most mechanics.

2. Its fun

However, there are somethings I don't work on for several reasons (proper specialized tools, the ability to have work and parts warranted, legal liability, etc) plus its gotten to the point in my life that I can't afford to have my primary car (no toy cars) out of commission for more than a few days; it costs me too much money in time.

sjacques64 > Justin Hughes
03/06/2015 at 13:46

Given that I'm fresh out of college with an e39 m5, I have no choice but to wrench. Currently she has been down for 3 weeks. Subframe is out to get the diff-bracket welded back on (too much Hoons). From what I have seen of mechanics in general, I would never trust one to do this job even if I had the funds.

My brother owns a 335i also does his wrenching. A few times he took it for diagnosis to numerous mechanics. One BMW certified mechanic managed to put his exhaust back on upside down. Two other mechanics diagnosed his NEW turbos as the cause for his oil leaks when it was actually the front crank seal. Its almost like they didn't even look.

My friend took his 135i to get an oil change at one of those quick change places. The tech forgot to put oil back into the car. He drove home only to find his motor was seized.

Another friend of mine went to Dinan with his e90 m3 only to find that they did not tighten the drain bolt. Luckily he shut the car off immediately.

Ok I'm done ranting. My point is. If you have the means and time don't bother with a mechanic.

Pibbs says once you go Swede > Justin Hughes
03/06/2015 at 13:46

I started wrenching when I was in High School. My mother's car had been sitting in a garage for 8 years, and needed a new radiator. With a small box of miscellaneous tools, I set to work and completed the job with no prior experience in about 3 hours.

Over the years through college and beyond, I picked up skills from friends, and google. I found myself doing more and more work. First a brake booster, then exhaust, followed by a fuel pump, electrical work, etc. Eventually I found myself tackling clutches, a full transmission swap in my Jeep, and then a full motor transplant in my 944.

I had a house with a one car driveway. I did work on and parked 3 vehicles in it. My toolbox was buried in my 10x10 shed in the backyard. Now I have a full 2 car garage with two tool boxes (full of lifetime warranty Craftsman tools from eBay and my dad's old stash), and soon (hopefully) a vehicle lift.

Why do I wrench? Because I'm a cheap mother-f'er. I hate paying someone outrageous prices for something I can do myself. I have a third (reliable) vehicle now, in case one has to go down for major maintenance, so downtime isn't an issue. Why else? Because I love it.

And Justin, if you need a place to wrench, I'm right over the border in northwestern Rhode Island, come on by.

Bubba68CS > Justin Hughes
03/06/2015 at 13:47

In my experience, working on a car is infinitely more enjoyable when you don't need it to get to work the next day...

csweiner > Justin Hughes
03/06/2015 at 13:48

I've done the emergency diff swap, myself, on a Miata. Including the 20 minutes waiting for a tow-truck, I popped the diff, located a diff in a junkyard, aquired the diff, halfshafts and driveshaft (Put a '94-95 TorSen into my '91) and installed it in under 5 hours. This also involved showing the dude in the wrecking yard how to get the diff out of the rear suspension subframe. (subframe was out of the car with the diff, halfshafts, hubs... etc)

vondon302 > Justin Hughes
03/06/2015 at 13:50

Great post ! It always pays to have a plan.

doombot117 > Justin Hughes
03/06/2015 at 13:52

Doombot does not wrench, im not confident in my abilities to do the work, i have no problems on a dirt late model but wont touch my car. Even though much of its the same, id rather not screw up and break it.

IGetPwnedOften > Justin Hughes
03/06/2015 at 13:53

I don't know if they still do it, but back in the day, BMW aftermarket pads had a very thin, highly abrasive layer applied to them. The idea was that they would effectively grind the discs back into shape.

It also meant changing the front and rear pads together was a big no-no as it meant you more or less had no brakes for the first fifty miles or so :)

foxbody > Justin Hughes
03/06/2015 at 13:55

I took the running boards off my new-to-me '99 4runner last weekend.

Actually it took 2 weekends.

The first attempt, on the passenger side, I get the rear bolts off, middle bolts off, get to the front bolts, and they're hopelessly encased in concrete-hard muck, have a little hole you're supposed to get a socket in that no way in hell will it fit. After 2 hours, it gets dark, I give up, reattach everything.

Next weekend, I come armed with a sawzall. Get previously removed bolts off, buzz the whole damn front mount off.

Driver side - I managed to break:

1 wrench (strip the inside)

1 socket adapter (the little guy that lets you put a smaller socket on) - damn thing just twisted straight off when I was torquing on a frozen bolt.

Give up completely on getting the hopelessly frozen bolts off the driver side, hack off the entire mount, ruining an entire pack of sawzall blades in the process.

Total project time: 6 hours. To remove 2 running boards.

I'm 100% all for working on your own stuff, but god damn, this is like a microcosm for every time I try to work on something.

Justin Hughes > Arrivederci
03/06/2015 at 13:55

I've read that it's possible for dealer to tell if and when a reflash was done, so it might not be completely warranty proof. But I dipped my original wheels, and am putting on aftermarket ones in spring. I'd like to get rid of the torque dip. And I want an unequal length header someday, just to bring back the classic Subaru boxer burble.

Ike B > Justin Hughes
03/06/2015 at 13:57

Here's hoping you move into a house again as soon as possible.

The one time I lived in an apartment was the worst 7 months of my life. Now I have three cars and get to do whatever I want with them! Take that, Ashton Boourns or whatever the fuck pretentious name that apartment complex was.

Justin Hughes > Masty
03/06/2015 at 13:58

Kinja'd!!!

Same wheels, plus Vintage Gold Plastidip and a coat of gloss.

Justin Hughes > Masty
03/06/2015 at 14:00

I had a CB750 Custom myself!

DanPadge > jariten1781
03/06/2015 at 14:02

You don't need to take it to the dealership, but you do need proof the maintenance was done. No oil change proof = it didn't happen and now they may be able to void the warranty if they can show it might be related to lack of oil changes. Having all your records with the dealership just makes life easier.

protodad > Justin Hughes
03/06/2015 at 14:02

Just finished doing a clutch for the first time on my Honda Fit (first clutch, not first for the fit) and wrenching on cars has its ups and downs. It usually feels pretty good until you snap the head off a grade 8 bolt in the frame and there is no humanly possible way to get it out. I often wonder why the hell I think I am qualified to do stuff like this. Days later (doing this alone) getting to start it up the first time in a week and knowing everything is working right feels amazing.

With family it often becomes a balancing act. Sometimes I have the time to do the work myself and other times we think it would be better to have someone else take care of it so I don't spend a week doing a $65 job in a shop.

1111111111111111111111 > jariten1781
03/06/2015 at 14:04

I was able to finally afford to transition to that model. Car number 3 is a bit out yet. But the garage is getting modified for a lift, and should be in by summer.

yamirider > 5Doors
03/06/2015 at 14:06

this.

When I was 14, dad got two dirtbikes. He said that if I maintained both bikes, he would buy the parts.

we got tools and I just started going. If I hit a snag, I googled or asked somebody at the dirtbike shop.

I think the biggest problem most people have is getting over their fear of trying.

wiffleballtony > Justin Hughes
03/06/2015 at 14:06

I would wrench if I had a second car to drive when I mess up. Tools, time and maybe someone with more experience than I do. Which is little to no experience.

theWong > Justin Hughes
03/06/2015 at 14:06

Kinja'd!!!

If it's out of warranty and if you can wrench it, do it! Did my own soft top replacement, a pain, but was worth saving probably a thousand in labor /parts. Silverstone grey and glass window cloth blue top, baby!

KSNiner > whatisthatsound
03/06/2015 at 14:07

Sure it's not the flesh from your legs?

C-Rod > Justin Hughes
03/06/2015 at 14:09

Once you learn how it works it makes so much sense though. Much easier to troubleshoot than faulty ecus, throttle position sensors, idle air control valves, clogged intake ports, or electric fuel pumps and regulators.

jariten1781 > DanPadge
03/06/2015 at 14:10

Totally true, a 100% dealer serviced car will make claims easier. I have no issue with people who decide that's best for them.

I just get annoyed that unscrupulous dealers foist the "get it serviced here or no warranty" nonsense. Then folks, who are 100% well meaning, parrot that because they don't know any better. It's pervasive even in automotive circles where people should know better...

Justin Hughes > Bubba68CS
03/06/2015 at 14:12

True, though it can be both stressful and fun when you need to get it back together for day two of a rally...

Kinja'd!!!

We were not successful in fixing Dirty Rallysport's split wheel well at Black River Stages in 2012. But we had fun trying!

The next day we played spectator, sitting in the woods and drinking beer.

CleverUsername > Justin Hughes
03/06/2015 at 14:12

Here's how wrenching makes sense to me: You have to find a suitable car, otherwise you won't want to invest the time and frustration.

Finding a suitable car for such a long-term commitment is not unlike finding a suitable spouse. Some were never going to produce a deep and meaningful relationship and should be avoided, others come from competent pedigree and will be worth the investment. Some bare the scars of previous abuse and others have rarely seen the harsh nature of the real world. It's all up to you and your judgement.

So, in love, be it human or automotive, choose your partner wisely.

WaddleLoo > C-Rod
03/06/2015 at 14:13

Ya they are much simpler systems for sure. I did the front springs on my KLR650 and everything worked out fine, but for like the first hundred miles all I could picture was my front tire shooting off. Just paranoid I guess. I have never really screwed up a car either when working on it, I just feel like mistakes would tend to be less physically catastrophic.

Justin Hughes > csweiner
03/06/2015 at 14:15

Oh yes, I feel the pain. Fortunately I already knew how to swap diffs, having done the LSD upgrade before. We found it easier to swap the diff and PPF together as a unit.

Justin Hughes > vondon302
03/06/2015 at 14:17

Kinja'd!!!

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > Justin Hughes
03/06/2015 at 14:18

As long as its above 40 degrees, I am up for attempting any repair myself. Recently though I found access to a garage with tools and a lift for $5 an hour to do work on my own so I will definitely be using that in the future! I have only ever owned one car at a time so its hairy whenever something breaks and I need to get it fixed, regardless of the weather or temperature. I generally have just hoped things don't break in the winter lol.

SchwarzeEwigkt > IGetPwnedOften
03/06/2015 at 14:19

Not a professional mechanic, but I do. I find that by the time a set of pads are worn out, the Northeast winters have gnawed at the rotors for long enough to replace them. In the event that the pads aren't worn, most of the time the problem has wrecked the rotors anyway. They're not that expensive. I think it's worth having fresh wear-and-tear stuff either way.

theRealRealMikeyG > timgray
03/06/2015 at 14:22

aas a former motorcycle mechanic for 15 years, all i can say is there is no one who will half ass a repair more than a person who works on their own motorcycle.

I've seen so many issues with bikes "serviced and repaired" by their owners that would prevent me from even pushing the bike on a lift until i had a damage disclosure release signed than i can count on all the fingers of everybody at sturgis.

and it didnt matter the type of bike. From Bimota's to tired old honda cubs, they were all just as likely to have a wire with two ends twisted together and some electrical tape thrown over it to having wheel bearings so bad you heard them coming a block and a half away.

Hell i had a Bimota Tesi i worked on where ALL of the tie rod ends were so obviusly bad that you didnt even need to bend down and look at them, you could tell from 20 feet away.

Also had a customer bring in a Honda CB750 that had jb weld all over the cylinder heads and wondered why it was leaking so much oil and running poorly.

The moral of the story is, for every owner doing their own work, and doing it well, there are just as many and most likely an order of magnitude more who are doing it so shitty they shouldn't be allowed to own tools.

Masty > Justin Hughes
03/06/2015 at 14:23

Looks sharp. How was your overall Pastidip experience? I've considered doing my wheels a few times.

Prophet of hoon > Slant6
03/06/2015 at 14:23

it's really easy

http://www.arrl.org/ham-radio-lice…

take a test, pass test, start irritating geeks. the number one thing to tell anyone who is into HAM radios - is that you don't know or care much about how they work... even if you do know, be sure to (at least once) tell some grand wizard HAM operator that line. It really is worth it.

Justin Hughes > foxbody
03/06/2015 at 14:23

I helped a friend remove the roll bar from his about to be sold Miata. It was payback for his help with the December 26 diff swap. After several New England winters (when his MSM was asleep in his garage), those bolts were just one solid mass of rust. It got to the point where we were thrilled when they broke rather than coming loose because it saved us the time and elbow grease of removing them. They were all getting replaced for safety when the roll bar got installed in his next Miata anyway, so who cares?

l75eya > Justin Hughes
03/06/2015 at 14:24

i echo that sentiment. Car a needs the rear brakes done and a new half shaft up front, car b needs a timing belt kit installed and many other things. Those brakes and that axle better hold for another month!

Justin Hughes > Ike B
03/06/2015 at 14:25

Thanks! I have plans...

Danger > Justin Hughes
03/06/2015 at 14:25

Parking lot repairs are fun. The water pump shaft broke on my 1985 Toyota 4X4 22R while I was about 30 miles outside of Fairplay (South Park) CO. I accidentally over tightened the tensioner while replacing the alternator brushes during the previous week. I got a very scary tow strap ride into town to the local CarQuest. I bought the pump, a new belt since mine was showing wear, some coolant and sealant and had it changed in about 20 minutes. Only six or so bolts total. Easiest repair I think I've ever had in a parking lot.

Mikeepoo > Justin Hughes
03/06/2015 at 14:26

Seriously all the guys who sit on here and "discuss" cars they can never own, looking down their noses at people who drive Camrys, automatics, or heavan forbid Camerys with automatics, that don't wrench their own cars, or any cars and call themselves Jalops. Seriously Fuck You! I probably fail every "are you a Jalop" test but I can and do repair every car or truck I've ever owned. I did it when I lived in an apartment, I did it outside at -35, and I did it with shit tools.

The guys who wrench their Camrys or other beigemobiles are ten times the Jalops than a whole lot of the fanboys that forever comment on one or other pricey piece of shit on this site. What's better? True car guys make sure they have some place to wrench, they borrow tools if they have to, not make excuses, "oh it's too hard, to cold, have no skill", and on and on. Do you think that those who do, magically figured out how to work on cars? "I would if I could" means you don't and probably never will, go read Car and Driver.

theRealRealMikeyG > jks
03/06/2015 at 14:27

No PROFESSIONAL mechanic will take shortcuts, say they did work they didnt do, and do things half assed.

PROFESSIONAL mechanics do the job, do it right, and move on to the next one.

They are faster than a home mechanic 90% of the time because they do the job more often and KNOW that certain things can be done certain ways.

For instance, i KNOW that on a mid 80's to mid 90's Honda Goldwing, Honda says you have to remove the muffler to gain clearance to remove the rear wheel. Not true, i can simply loosen it, swing it away and gain all the clearance i need/ That isnt a shortcut, which implies doing it half assed, but rather knowledge that allows me to KNOW i can do something a certain way and still complete the job correctly.

Justin Hughes > theWong
03/06/2015 at 14:27

That looks like Moog's from Mighty Car Mods before he wrapped it!

I will definitely wrench on my BRZ myself after warranty. Oil changes look so easy with the filter right next to the dipstick. I dream of a Vortech supercharger for 300hp...

Danger > Justin Hughes
03/06/2015 at 14:28

I subscribe to a little of both. I have a 2005 4Runner with a warranty for Major repairs, and a 1987 Grand National for funsies. If something did happen to the 4Runner I could drive the GN in a pinch, and after that I have motos and bicycles. It's fun for me to wrench without too much pressure.

theRealRealMikeyG > jjhats
03/06/2015 at 14:28

Not only that, but many of todays fasteners that are used in critical applications are TTY (torque to yield) bolts that many home mechanics just keep using over and over and over.

there are things about todays modern cars that most shadetree mechanics are unaware of, which can cause serious issues.

Jeff DelPapa > Justin Hughes
03/06/2015 at 14:29

I have the skills. I have the tools (and then some). I have the time. I don't have the space.

I used to do all my own work (including more than one engine teardown). I have an engine lathe, mill, and welders, when needed, I could make many parts from scratch. But now we buy cars new. We keep them forever, but I don't do much work on them.

A couple of things changed. First my current partner will not tolerate an unreliable car. Require external assistance more than once, and its time to go shopping. As in the very next weekend, even when we have other stuff scheduled. Her Tercel stalled out after getting soaked, because the plug wires were tired (15 year old originals), and the battery was killed trying to restart it. Got it towed home. Next morning I replaced the usual suspects in the ignition system (cap, rotor, wires), jump started it, and it was fine. The only reason it got to hang out for 2 months further is that it took that long for the replacement to arrive. (she decided that she wanted a then brand new Prius. Got the second one the dealer had seen. I drove the tercel and when going someplace together we took my car while waiting for the replacement to arrive).

At this point, cars don't have the usual routine minor stuff, that people can "practice" on. No more swapping points, coil packs instead of distributors, plugs last 100k, etc. Some of the bigger stuff has become a pain due to sideways engines, and tiny engine compartments. I did change the alternator on the G20, but it was literally a pain, that space wasn't designed for my short fingered, but large paws. I figured out how to get wrenches on the various fasteners, and snake the thing out the bottom, but I bet a beginner wouldn't.

There are a bunch of things I won't bother with now, things that are such tedium that they are worth paying someone else to struggle with. (and a few, where the potential price for collateral damage is too high - I didn't bother changing the flex cable to the steering wheel on one car, let the dealer pay the $800 for a replacement if they accidentally trigger the air bag trying to get to the steering wheel nut)

But again, space to work is an issue, especially here on Hoth, I mean in Boston. I don't have an enclosed space to work in, heated or not. I don't have a place to put a project car.

MoparMap > whatisthatsound
03/06/2015 at 14:29

Just for fun because I'm a nerd, I'm guessing 2006 based on the fact that it's a blue coupe with 10 spokes? Kinda looks like gen 3 hood vents as well. The rockers aren't too bad to get off, but the stupid two studs and nuts right behind the front tire suck.

Humorously enough it also appears your's might be very similarly equipped to mine based on the MCS and TeamTech stickers on your toolbox.

Cowboy behind the wheel > jjhats
03/06/2015 at 14:30

This is a common reason people throw out there but it's not true. Yes, cars have a lot of computers in them but that doesn't mean you can't work on them yourself. Oil changes, brakes, wheels, tires, suspension, A/C, cooling system, power steering, axles/CV shafts, bushings, transmissions, transfer cases, injectors, fuel pumps, interior: All of them are servicable without involving a computer. Even when an issue is related to a check engine light, a trip to an auto parts store with free code scanning service can solve a lot of issues. Google the code and check the possibilities. Even with the vast array of sensors cars have now, they're still easy to change (if you can access them). Knock sensors, cam sensors, crank sensors, ABS sensors, oil pressure sensors, temp sensors: all are simple to replace with traditional tools on most cars. I've swapped entire engines in computer controlled cars and never once had to mess with the computer. Yes, there are more wires, but I didn't need any additional know-how to unhook and hook them back up. Diagnosing a problem is really the one issue where the computers are involved but the free code scan or buying your own code tool and then doing online research help immensely.

theRealRealMikeyG > Justin Hughes
03/06/2015 at 14:31

its actually very obvious for a dealer on a modern car to tell if the unit has been flashed and then reflashed.

the "ecu" isnt the only place information is stored and things like the number of on-off cycles, versus the mileage versus many other readings make it painfully obvious.

and most manufacturers now require screen shots of this information for any motor warranty claims.

whatisthatsound > MoparMap
03/06/2015 at 14:33

Yep exactly, I have the MCS 2 way remotes with eibach 800lb rear 500lb front with team tech 6 point cam locks on both seats. On oppo I just put up a live DIY.

Monsterajr > Justin Hughes
03/06/2015 at 14:35

Perfectly stated and similar in ways to my own reasons To Wrench or Not to Wrench.

I started messing around with wrenches (really) at about age 5 by taking my bicycle apart and more importantly putting it back together correctly. From there I moved on to many many bicycles, lawn mowers, mopeds, cars and motorcycles.

So To Wrench: At some point in my life while single and living in a basement apt. but with a 1.5 car garage two steps across the hall, I had 3 cars and a motorcycle. Tinkering with the non daily drivers was/is really my joy. You remove a set of 40DCOE's from the Alfa, put them on the bench, clean them and rebuild them, stare at them for a little too long, have a beer and maybe even leave them on the bench because one beer became six. You come back a few days later and get them on, set and adjust them and then get the car running right. A few test runs and back to the garage awaiting the weekend to really give the car the Italian tune up both you and the car are waiting for.

Kinja'd!!!

Not To Wrench: Mom's 245DL wagon has a bad transmission mount, it happens to be February and I am not yet living in my Bachelor's paradise basement apt with 1.5 car garage two steps across the hall, but in the house I grew up in. This house had a nice long driveway with NO garage and was at one point only pea gravel. It's miserable and cold out and she needs the car on the road by the end of Saturday or I'll be driving her around and she'll be driving me crazy. So I proceed to freeze, be cramped and then realize 12min before the parts place closes and after I spent 45min getting that last nut off, that they gave me the wrong cross member. The parts place is 13min away so, I will be driving and be driven crazy. This was the point in my life I decided some things are best left to others when time or convenience is paramount.

Kinja'd!!!

Flash forward and I am married with a family, nice two car garage and associate commitments. Both the leased vehicle and my DD get regular service/maintenance at the dealer/trusted mechanic. I only do work on my DD when there is going to be a significant financial savings (rebuilt entire front end for 1/3 cost of mechanic doing it) or if I really feel like tinkering. I no longer have spare/toy cars or motorcycles so I have regressed back to my beginnings and am now tinkering with Bicycles I find out for the garbage or my snow blower and lawnmower (both of which IMHO never need to be fixed right away!).

So for me the wrenching part is cathartic and should not be under duress. This is how I decide whether or not to wrench.